New York Times: Love in 2-D
Found a semi-interesting somewhat sensational NYT article on 2D love in Japan. (You can get a login from bugmenot.com) There’s a Boing Boing blog post on it too. Predictably, it didn’t take long before commentators started to sound the paedophile alarm. Cue the righteous condemnations.
Honestly speaking, this topic has been way overdone, though most of it in unintelligible babblings on 4chan and friends. But of course, “look at how weird Japan is” is always a favourite hail Mary for desperate newspapers on their death beds. There is some degree of irony in the fact that the article was written by the blogger of TokyoMango.
“I think we should all pray to God that he gets over his silly delusion…” I think this Boing Boing comment sums up the whole thing perfectly. It’s interesting how 2D love is almost universally looked down upon with scorn or pity every time the topic is returned from the grave by yet another newcomer. Somehow, people’s brains shut down whenever the words “protect the children” show up, leading to massive groupthink exercises and delicious hypocrisies.
P.S. Nemu is just bad taste though.
[ Read the original article on New York Times ]
July 26th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Nemu? Bad taste? Never.
NYT is as mainstream American as print press gets, so uh, yeah.
July 26th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
Re: BB article, see comments #15, #19, #25, #28, #48. Should have quoted someone else’s comment.
You should see the Gizmodo post on the thing. The readership takes it a lot less seriously.
July 26th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Too many want something to gripe about that seems to be socially unacceptable by their own moral standards, yet fail to see it in a more objective way. I would agree 2D love taken to the extreme like this (beyond fangasm that is) is just bad, but the amount of nitpicking over it is just stupid too. Overblown is overblown.
July 26th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
I guess I didn’t really let that article bother me too much since the population that was the subject of the article is really minuscule that I couldn’t feel slighted by its insinuations. Anime will always be a niche hobby, both in the US and Japan, and I’m content with it staying that way. I just figure that those who choose not to understand it won’t understand it so trying to convince them is a waste of time.
July 26th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
zzeroparticle:
It’s not about convincing people of the merits of anime, because there is actually very little merit. Haha.
It’s just a general observation that there are certain topics where condemnation always comes too automatically for my liking. It’s a lot like how “porn is bad” is generally regarded as a kind of “default” truth that you are simply supposed to subscribe to.
intro:
Aha. Good catch. I keep forgetting Boing Boing was Canadian.
July 26th, 2009 at 8:51 pm
“…condemnation always comes too automatically…”
lol
i guess that’s human (or most of the human population)
July 26th, 2009 at 9:41 pm
@darkmirage
I don’t hate the people in the article. I actually feel quite bad for them. I think life beat them down so badly they retreated inside themselves, into a safer, kinder world where they aren’t rejected or insulted by other people.
I hope that their affection for the 2D can bring them something close to happiness.
July 26th, 2009 at 9:56 pm
In the end evolution is about information transference. We’re nothing but breathing hard disks seeking to pass on our genetic code to a new medium before our platters inevitably expire.
The automatic responses in people are, I think, conditioned responses that arise out of choices that coincide with instinctive compulsions. Its ironic that puppets of flesh should be so leery of the very natural urges that pull their strings. Whatever. In the end they fuck and their DNA gets the last laugh.
I’m not actually angry, but that last paragraph sounded too evil for me to resist.
P.S: DM, I notice your posts fall on weekdays and not just weekends. This means you got out of combat?
July 26th, 2009 at 10:47 pm
“It’s just a general observation that there are certain topics where condemnation always comes too automatically for my liking”
Yes, and I think it’s this that allows society to function. If we can just dismiss things outright then we don’t need to have debates on the merits of certain things that can be seen as detrimental to society. Not having a healthy relationship with the opposite sex IS detrimental to society. Incest, drugs, porn etc. All things that are outside of societies norms. If we can dismiss them without discussion then we can keep society functioning.
Who defines what is right and what is wrong? Although we all have our own moral guidelines, for the most part society does. Unless you want a fixed moral guideline (like the Bible), then you’ll have to wait till society bends to your way of thinking (e.g Homosexuality); if they ever do.
Personally, I have many things that I think are wrong but society thinks are right. But as long as people keep their fetishes and habits to themselves, I think I’ll live.
July 26th, 2009 at 11:58 pm
heavens.feel:
Yes, I agree with you. A lot of people stay single for various reasons. Some of them are workaholics, some like to keep cats and some troll 4chan. Obviously not all of these choices are physically and/or mentally healthy for the person in question, but then again neither is smoking or drinking.
oblivious:
Many would argue that questioning our instinctive responses is what makes us human. And yeah I’m in a non-combat vocation, although the concept of “combat” in the SAF is lol.
July 27th, 2009 at 12:58 am
It would be wrong and evil to lol at that article right? Crap I guess I’m an evil person.
Ah Btw Darkmirage, that porn is bad thing, we actually had some kind of a “put the good things and bad things in the two hats” game in 9th grade, and ofc we the guys unanimously put it in the good thing. Rebelz for life. Nostalgia sniff,
July 27th, 2009 at 1:46 am
Ah, 2D girls are lovely.
God forsake those who don’t even have the brain capacity to comprehend the charm of 2D girls =D.
July 27th, 2009 at 3:15 am
I love some of these BB comments.
‘Also, what happens if two guys fall in love with the same pillow character? A pillow fight?’
‘Don’t forget he took the name of the character’s brother. So, you know, there’s more issues to contemplate.’
‘he needs some sort of sponsorship by whatever stain remover he uses.’
‘Oh sure, it’s one thing to hang out with a cartoon printed on a pillow. But if I take a photo of the hot girl at my dentist’s office and put her picture on a pillow, suddenly there’s detectives at my door. Geez, talk about double standards. 9_9′
‘Did he really say “When I die, I want to be buried with her in my arms”?
I don’t know anybody who has relatives buried here at all. Everyone, and I mean everyone, gets cremated.’
July 27th, 2009 at 7:51 am
Talk to people! Develop social skills! Make real friends! Otherwise, THIS will happen to you.
July 28th, 2009 at 12:36 am
I don’t really see the problem with liking a 2d character. Sure, some lonely people might take their love of anime characters a bit too far and that’s unfortunate. People pour their obsessions into all types of outlets, so of course 2d girls will be the outlet for some people. A few bad apples doesn’t ruin the whole bunch ;)
The funny thing is that most of the characters these people “fall in love with” are just the brainchildren of authors, writers, usually men just like themselves. That’s a scary thought, eh? xD
July 28th, 2009 at 12:59 am
Well, when the interest is too different to be accepted… >.>
So “hardcore” otaku are scum of the earth. Yay. Everyone move along now.
July 28th, 2009 at 10:36 am
“It’s just a general observation that there are certain topics where condemnation always comes too automatically for my liking. It’s a lot like how “porn is bad” is generally regarded as a kind of “default” truth that you are simply supposed to subscribe to.”
This. The kneejerk reaction is what bugs me more than the response a lot of the time.
July 28th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
Isn’t it curious how Americans can read this article and think “oh the Japanese are so strange”, and yet there are people here who obsess over supermodels and porn-actresses with the same level of devotion, also having abandoned hope at 3D relationships. Which is more twisted: the man who obsesses over a physical image with no intention of a character portrayed behind it; or the man who obsesses over a person who was invented for a story? I grew up with the culture here, but the Japanese 2D love makes far more sense to me, and seems like the less vile form of objectification/idealization.
July 28th, 2009 at 10:54 pm
Japan Probe has a follow-up on this:
http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=11681
July 29th, 2009 at 11:41 am
I was reading this article on more Japanese men becoming “herbivores”. In this term coined by Japanese media, it refers to men who are not as aggressive as their forefathers in terms of jobs and romance. It coincided with the ideals presented in this article.
Guess it’s always the automation condemnation genes activated in all human race.
July 30th, 2009 at 9:37 am
Should I insult the guy more or say something constructive? How about both!
The problem I have with the guy in the article is his absolute lack of social skills. People have weird fetishes, and that’s fine, but it becomes a problem if the fetish interferes with their ability to interact with other people. I mean, this guy will obviously never get a real girlfriend as long as he is in love with his cartoon figure. Since he cannot interact normally in a social setting he turns to a doll for love. This absolute lack of social skills disgusts most people and I think that disgust is perfectly healthy.
I believe we should listen to our emotions and our genes because they keep us alive.
July 30th, 2009 at 10:15 am
“It’s just a general observation that there are certain topics where condemnation always comes too automatically for my liking.”
- Dark Mirage
Ok. I agree. How about well-thought out condemnations? Are they more to your liking?
July 31st, 2009 at 8:26 am
Oh geez. More reason for conservative Christians in my neighboorhood to tell my parents I’m a menace to society for liking anime. I really hope people don’t assume that there’s thousands of us otaku’s hoarding anime pillows of various pre-pubescent anime characters in our closets and doing kinky things with them at night.
I really couldn’t care less if someone was into this sort of stuff, but I’m fairly angry at the person who wrote that article. Most likely it’s going to cause a bunch of people to get even more paranoid about anime.
Jesus… I can hardly see why being this way is that bad anyways. If they don’t want to be around women FINE! Less people to get married, have kids and overpopulate this planet. It’s not like we’re running SHORT on people anyways! What’s a few that don’t reproduce gonna matter?
August 8th, 2009 at 9:46 pm
Page 1 verdict: nerds can have depressing habits; story not newsworthy or usefully informative in any way; (EDIT: following through on checking the author out, it seems to be less being uninformed and more sensationalism, which could be either better or worse I guess); complete waste of time now required to fight off uninformed opinions of influential old people about largely unrelated interests.
Pages 2-3: verdict justified, confirmed. Gj.
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:45 am
I dont’ see the problem of liking 2D characters, because I don’t see why liking real girls is so important, I think people should just like what they want, real or 2D, and everyone else should just stfu. As long as no one gets hurt, I don’t see the problem with anything.
Besides 2D girls are usually designed to appeal to men likings and desires, so I don’t see the problem with men actually responding to that.