BayTSP to the rescue!
Good news for Odex. BayTSP’s chief executive officer Mark Ishikawa is flying all the way to Singapore to help them with their case. And he’s of Japanese descent too! (Well, actually that’s probably unrelated.) Apparently Odex did pay them after all, so I guess it was just a case of terrible paperwork caught in the whirlpool of bureaucratic inefficiencies.
Mr Graham [Ishikawa's publicist] told Today: “Mark will be working with Odex to demonstrate that we were under contract to Odex and that our data identified the IP addresses of individuals who were downloading and sharing copyrighted material licensed by Odex.”
Now Odex just has to rope in the Japanese studios to establish its right to take civil actions. Read about it on Today Online.
And in a related development, ars technica, one of the most reputable tech blogs on the web, has posted an article on this incident. It doesn’t really offer any new perspective, but hey now we know that at least one other person on the global tube network knows of Singapore’s existence.
Okay, so we aren’t shocked. The whole situation (except for the recent judicial decision) has been sadly predictable and looks set to cost Odex plenty of bad press from its biggest potential customers before this is all over. Will it work out well for the company in the end? Time will tell, but if we judge by the RIAA’s example, cracking down on file-swapping could take years and a serious war chest.
Read the rest of it on ars technica.
August 28th, 2007 at 9:47 pm
I AM YOUR RJC SENIOR. HEARTS!
August 28th, 2007 at 9:55 pm
Well, even with BayTSP’s affidavit, Odex cannot prove that the “copyrighted material” was “licensed by Odex.” They still can’t prove that they’re the exclusive licensee for the listed series nor can they prove that they were authorized by the owners.
August 28th, 2007 at 10:04 pm
Oops, sorry, amend that, not an affidavit, an actual testimony from Mark Ishikawa.
August 28th, 2007 at 10:43 pm
I’d be very surprised if their effort worth anything in the long run…
August 28th, 2007 at 11:15 pm
Just because ishikawa cooperates with odex so the balance will tip to odex’s favour?
Ok, if odex were to be backed with huge war chest and a slew of lawyers, is odex serious in sueing all local anime downloaders’ pants off?
From what i’ve heard, hiring baytsp to track ip address doesn’t cost a fortune. So what justifies 3000-5000 bucks fine per head?
One may wonder what odex is up to. What i’m 110% sure is that they won’t use the money to initiate campaign to educate people and develop anime community in singapore. They did not even have the goodwill to start with.
If pacnet – by some divine intervention – were to lose the case, that would equal pouring salt over already mortal wound.
The end is nigh for customer privacy…better fasten your seatbelt, folks.
August 28th, 2007 at 11:19 pm
Yea,as said above. Baytsp says that odex contracts them to track people downloading stuff they licensed. So the grey points now are odex not having actually license most of the stuff they post on avpas website, and whether the japanese companies are willing to come down to singapore to sue those downloaders as well, as is required of singapore law.
And OH YEA, Odex website has finally been UpDaTeD/CHANGED?!!?!?!
Go take a LOOK!!! :p rofl
August 28th, 2007 at 11:53 pm
…On the other end of the saga-scape, Singnet said that they did not consent to Odex’s court ruling:
http://www.straitstimes.com/Latest%2BNews/Singapore/STIStory_152613.html
“… In Odex’s case, as it does in all such cases, he said, the firm would ‘entrust the courts to apply the law and make a ruling’.”
“… Online attacks against SingNet intensified after District Judge Ernest Lau published in his written judgement that ‘for the SingNet case, the orders were made by consent’. He also said that SingNet did not even appear in court.”
Well, to not have a legal representative to argue the case, it’s another case of “I don’t care about my customers’ right of privacy, so long as I can carry on with my business.” mentality (‘bo chap’ or plain lazy is also a good phraes to describe their appalling inaction).
I hate to say this, SingNet, but:
Your inaction is also proof of your discourse in this saga, i.e. you failed to protect us in any way, instead by relying on the court to decide. I am both ashamed and violated as a consumer. I shall soon terminate my account, and will argue to have my termination fee waived because of this.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:33 am
it seems that happiness was short…
August 29th, 2007 at 6:43 am
This is VERY bad news.
They’re going to be trying to force the japanese companies to respond to Odex’s case. Once the companies go that far, they’ll have a precident set that can be used to badger companies into going after the US market too.
August 29th, 2007 at 8:41 am
REedited
I really have no idea of how BayTSP manage to track IP of User using soe other external program, so out of curiosity i send an email to Bittorrent(Thr Original BT)
asking them a few question
1)08/20/2007 02:00 AM
hi , who ever read my mail just wan to know that , other than using bittorent itself and connected with the tracker , is there other ways or means to track an IP address through other program?.
Best Regards
Answer
1)Response (Walter)
08/23/2007 01:05 PM
Hello,No, you need to be connected to the tracker and be downloading the same file as other users to see their IP address.
2) In order to view the peer list, does a user using Bitorrent (need to be participating in the upload/download)?
3) Then is there a way not to participate in the uploading/downloading activities,but still can view the peer list?
Response (Walter) 08/24/2007 04:00 PM
1. Yes, you need to participate in the download to see the peer list and IP addresses.
2. No, you need to participate in the download to see the peer list and IP addresses.
so in this case does that mean BayTSP are also using bittorrent to track people ID adress while downloading / Uploading at the same time?
Does that mean BayTSP who is contracted by Odex also invovle in the illegal activities of downloading/Uploading of animation?
Lastly, does that mean they themself are breaking the law?
P.S Nobody knows who program BayTSP are using until now… don’t tell me they are using BT also ?
August 29th, 2007 at 9:18 am
Correction for above comments
I really have no idea of how BayTSP manage to track IP of User using some other external program other than bittorrent.
also if you got any question to ask can send to this email address
bittorrent@mailca.custhelp.com
August 29th, 2007 at 10:00 am
PacNet Lawyers should be informed of this letter abt BT since they need all the bullets to fight them..
August 29th, 2007 at 10:06 am
@freak freak: I believe they mentioned it before that they used a program they wrote to link to the tracker. The program they wrote didn’t allow any uploading or downloading of the file, just to be connected to the tracker. This lack of uploading or downloading means that they’re not participating in said illegal activity, just monitoring.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:09 am
All this proves is that they have indeed hired BayTSP as their technical consultant. They still will have to prove how valid the evidence is, and Pacnet has their own experts in p2p networks as well.
Plus there’s still the question of them not being the exclusive licensee. Read the ruling. The Odex lawyer has conceded that their client ISN’T the exclusive licencee. Under the Copyright Act only copyright holders and exclusive licencees can take legal action.
So other than Gundam Seed, all other series are still by law out of their reach. They CANNOT sue you for downloading any other series since they’re only a distributor. And if the Japanese companies are to give them the exclusive licence( unlikely considering the legal fiasco going on) and also because they will have to screw several Other local distributors in the process.
Let’s put it this way, Either Odex gets Exclusive rights to ALL 400+ titles they’re suing for, or else they still don’t have a case. They can only get those who downloaded Gundam Seed, no one else.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:30 am
I am not very sure regarding thr program part as there is a possibility, that they manage to link up to the tracker but from the email i received form Bittorent stated
1. Yes, you need to participate in the download to see the peer list and IP addresses.
2. No, you need to participate in the download to see the peer list and IP addresses.
i really douthful of how thay mange that without uploading/ downloading since BT itself will forcefully do that itself . Furthermore BayTSP also never stated who program they are using in the court , only IP logs are present to the court for evidences.
I also can upload a torrent and change the name to an animation name and seed it , no matter who is it have to download it to see what is the content inside , dun tell me by looking at the file name you are be able to know what is the contents inside then you are kami-sama liao.
P.S 1 KB also consider as downloading LOH
August 29th, 2007 at 11:17 am
How is this good news?
August 29th, 2007 at 11:34 am
Sorta Good news for Odex, provided the court accepts that BayTSP’s explanation and work is accepted as expert Testimony in court. However, this still doesn’t solve the question of whether a sub licencee has the right to legal damages anyway.
Right now, the court ruling is that they don’t, otherwise Poh Kim and other local video companies and now sue you for copy right as well. Also this means those who were sued by the RIA are now liable to be sued by Sembawang, HMV and other local music stores who are also sub licencees of music titles.
In short, if the High Court finds that Odex can sue for titles they don’t have exclusive licence, then anyone can be sued by alot of people, and to date all copyright convictions have been done by either exclusive license or copyright holders themselves.
So it’s good that likely their technical evidence may not get thrown out of court, but the rights to sue in this case still hasn’t been settled. And as far as the law is concerned, only copy holders and exclusive licencee can sue, and no a letter of authorisations isn’t enough. You need exclusive rights, which will likely screw over the other video chains also distributuing anime.
If that happens, expect Poh Kim and BlueMax to lobby the right holders not to release exclusive rights. After all, their own franchises are at stake here, Odex be dammned.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:46 am
Just as JayF mentioned above, odex cannot sue us with civil or criminal suit because odex is not the exclusive licensee of the licensed anime in singapore.
The japanese anime firms like bandai, toei, etc do not have representative offices in singapore, so i believe they cannot do anything about the civil suit.
August 29th, 2007 at 12:27 pm
JayF: Let’s put it this way, Either Odex gets Exclusive rights to ALL 400+ titles they’re suing for, or else they still don’t have a case. They can only get those who downloaded Gundam Seed, no one else.
Exclusive licenses are sold rather than given, and the more recent the shows, the more expensive they get. Really fancy seeing Odex paying for all 400+ titles. The most they can achieve is to get the Japanese companies to authorise their actions; they Japanese might, but that would mean they’re actively involved, instead of just claiming to be “misrepresented” by Odex. And if that happens, the rest of the anime community around the world better take note, as that will be the shape of things to come.
August 29th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
Its Gonna Be Hatred everywhere..
Ppl hates odex –> hates ISP (more probably or should be singnet,starhub) –> and if odex won the case this will gradually giving example to other countries’ “odex” to act the same..–> resulting in singaporeans being hated as we are the root of all causes..
the world is gonna be raged..
August 29th, 2007 at 2:20 pm
Unless ODEX gets the studios/companys (sunrise, tv tokyo, seven arcs, gonzo and maybe a few more hundreds to go) that produces the animes to take legal actions against anime downloaders(meaning to take ODEX’s side), I think that ODEX have no chance of stopping the downloaders even if Ishikawa come all the way to Singapore.
I mean, he(Ishikawa) is just the one from the tracking company not the original rights owner(the studios and companys that produces the animation. Erm… right?
August 29th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
@hound297,
That depends wether ishikawa( the former hacker) could hack Judge Lau minds.. to favor OdEx..
August 29th, 2007 at 4:17 pm
it just make more ppl having a hard time…even if that former hacker come down to singapore…wad he can do is just support Odex to pwn the downloaders? let’s hope the judge is someone hu watch anime? ROFL~!
August 29th, 2007 at 8:40 pm
Look at it this way, ODEX still refuses to reveal how much they paid BayTSp for the software.
WHAT IS THE POINT of bringing in the CEO of BayTSP? To show how they pull ips from BT?
So?
Odex is still a sub licensee, they can only sue for Gundam SEED technically. And true fans can defend using the Fair Use policy, dunno about freeloaders though, gl to them.
In addition, once the ‘fee’ to BayTSP is made public….
In summary, ODEX just brought someone down to make themselves look even stupider.
IF THEY WANTED A VALID APPEAL, go bring the CEO’s of the Japanese Animation houses, what’s the point of bringing the BayTSP guy down?
ODEX seems to like to shoot themselves in the legs don’t they?
From this saga we have learnt that:
1. ODEX is run by 2 VERY incompetent idiots who live in lala land.
2. 2 said idiots have enough skeletons in their closets to make the boogeyman look tame.
3. Singnet is useless.
4. PacNet, a foreign company, has more balls then most Singaporeans.
5. The people at HWZ EDMW can get jobs as PIs.
6. Every other country with a healthy fansub-supported community out there is LAUGHING at us.
7. Peter Go is a delussional dreamer.
8. Stephen Sing is a plastic obsessed childish rude prick.
9. Our Censorship Board is run by monkeys.
10. Our print media is biased and largely run by wimps who pick out all the WRONG points.
11. ODEX seems to have ALOT of money to fly a ‘reknowned former hacker’ from Japan to Singapore. Wonder where it comes from.
12. ODEX HAS BEEN LYING TO THE PEOPLE THEY ARE THREATHENING!!!!
August 30th, 2007 at 1:00 pm
Good one silverwolfx!!
Down with ODEX!
Down with singnet!
Utterly disappointed and angry with singnet half-hearted effort!
August 30th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
I dunno, I actually posted that semi drunk, but oh well. xD
August 31st, 2007 at 1:19 am
later get sued for defamation from multiple parties…. Might wanna request to del that post…..
August 31st, 2007 at 1:48 am
How does one defame someone that is already INFAMOUS?
August 31st, 2007 at 10:14 am
after this i think it’s time for me to change hobbies haiz~
September 7th, 2007 at 12:08 am
what odex plan to drag CEO of BayTSP? . simple drag time . to odex if they lost this case , it will mean someone can end up in jail for fraud cause they don’t have Exclusive rights on those titles they claim .
to enable to get this off, odex must get all the anime owner/company (that they claim , 400 titles) to support him (include lie in court for odex).
do you think such things is possible to happen ?
things that I just don’t understand . if odex really pay BayTSP to collect the isp, how come they couldn’t provide evidents in first case . and why japan bayTSP and not US . since most anime fansub is from US
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Après Singapour, ODEX frappe en France | BikasuishinNovember 19th, 2007 at 6:15 am
[...] une simple erreur du chasseur de primes BayTSP, les espions-sur-BitTorrent commandités par ODEX, ou y a-t-il une volonté réelle du distributeur singapourien d’étendre ses menaces au monde [...]