Comments on: WikiLeaks http://2pwn.tk/websites/www.darkmirage.com/2010/12/06/wikileaks/ Anime, Games, J-Pop and Whatever Else Mon, 27 Dec 2010 03:59:45 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.7.2 By: Grey http://2pwn.tk/websites/www.darkmirage.com/2010/12/06/wikileaks/comment-page-1/#comment-408073 Mon, 27 Dec 2010 03:59:45 +0000 http://2pwn.tk/websites/www.darkmirage.com/?p=1467#comment-408073 long history of stability and our effect on global democracy. The US is a self formed government. No other government told us what to do and how to do it. The US was also able to unite distinctive states with their own government and identity into a functioning federal government. There has only been one restructuring of the federal government and that was when the Articles of Confederation were replaced with the Constitution. There has only been one rebellion of considerable worth and that was the succession of the South, which eventually was brought back into the union. The US has found a balance of power between the Executive, Judicial, Legislative branches of government and also the development of a powerful military with little to no political ambitions as an organization. The greatest social issues this country has faced have been able to be resolved in legal manner. Though change might take awhile, it does eventually happen. The United States has been a key player in advancing democracy in the world and is a big reason why democracy is considered to be the best form of government. Though the US has many accomplishments, there are some issues with the way that American Democracy is practiced that you have pointed out. There was the point on how there is only a choice of two political parties. I would say that you are wrong in your conclusion. A person has to face multiple elections before they can take the position. There are easily at least four people who fight in primaries or caucuses to get their party’s spot in the general election. The person who gets the party’s blessing is the one who was voted for by the members of the party. Then the person has to face the person that the other party found as the best choice. The presidential primary is even more crazy. A person has to win a primary in probably around 30 states to guarantee the candidacy; depending on which states they won and which party they belong to because each party do their primaries differently. This process includes the people in the weaning out of the candidates and I believe is very democratic. The only people who don’t usually deal with primaries are incumbents. They would have to do something big for their party move against them, though it has happened. I don’t know what to say about voter turnout. That is a problem the US is but people don’t really know why. There are multiple theories as to why it happens. I would say a big reason for the discrepancy between the US and Europe would cultural differences and different fears of the federal local and federal government, but this is all speculation. I have to say again that this is all opinion and that I am not fully educated on the ins and outs of other democracies. I must say that I have thoroughly enjoyed myself in writing about this and I’m really interest in what your opinions and critics about my points are. If you have country which you believe is the most democratic, please tell me. I would also like for you to explain what you meant by “two-party false dichotomy.” I think I know what you mean but I’m not sure.]]> Dark Mirage, I would say that it is impossible to provide universally excepted criterions to determine what country is the most democratic. Each country develops in its own way to solve specific issues those people face. Reasons I use to rate the American Democracy would be the United States’ long history of stability and our effect on global democracy.

The US is a self formed government. No other government told us what to do and how to do it. The US was also able to unite distinctive states with their own government and identity into a functioning federal government. There has only been one restructuring of the federal government and that was when the Articles of Confederation were replaced with the Constitution. There has only been one rebellion of considerable worth and that was the succession of the South, which eventually was brought back into the union. The US has found a balance of power between the Executive, Judicial, Legislative branches of government and also the development of a powerful military with little to no political ambitions as an organization. The greatest social issues this country has faced have been able to be resolved in legal manner. Though change might take awhile, it does eventually happen. The United States has been a key player in advancing democracy in the world and is a big reason why democracy is considered to be the best form of government.

Though the US has many accomplishments, there are some issues with the way that American Democracy is practiced that you have pointed out. There was the point on how there is only a choice of two political parties. I would say that you are wrong in your conclusion. A person has to face multiple elections before they can take the position. There are easily at least four people who fight in primaries or caucuses to get their party’s spot in the general election. The person who gets the party’s blessing is the one who was voted for by the members of the party. Then the person has to face the person that the other party found as the best choice. The presidential primary is even more crazy. A person has to win a primary in probably around 30 states to guarantee the candidacy; depending on which states they won and which party they belong to because each party do their primaries differently. This process includes the people in the weaning out of the candidates and I believe is very democratic. The only people who don’t usually deal with primaries are incumbents. They would have to do something big for their party move against them, though it has happened.

I don’t know what to say about voter turnout. That is a problem the US is but people don’t really know why. There are multiple theories as to why it happens. I would say a big reason for the discrepancy between the US and Europe would cultural differences and different fears of the federal local and federal government, but this is all speculation.

I have to say again that this is all opinion and that I am not fully educated on the ins and outs of other democracies. I must say that I have thoroughly enjoyed myself in writing about this and I’m really interest in what your opinions and critics about my points are. If you have country which you believe is the most democratic, please tell me. I would also like for you to explain what you meant by “two-party false dichotomy.” I think I know what you mean but I’m not sure.

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By: Caedite http://2pwn.tk/websites/www.darkmirage.com/2010/12/06/wikileaks/comment-page-1/#comment-407170 Sat, 25 Dec 2010 02:26:02 +0000 http://2pwn.tk/websites/www.darkmirage.com/?p=1467#comment-407170 As an American and a member of the military this is not a big surpise, it was going to happen sooner or later

Ok, the things that were told to the world are NOTHING NEW

1. The Russian Federation is run by Putin, well who did not know that

2. US diplomats talking crap about other world leaders, give me a break

there were no big secrets told, I am telling you guys ASSange would have been dead if he had any REAL US secret.

PFC Manning is a dead man, I hope he is executed but I am pretty sure he will get 60 years in jail

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By: DarkMirage http://2pwn.tk/websites/www.darkmirage.com/2010/12/06/wikileaks/comment-page-1/#comment-407037 Fri, 24 Dec 2010 17:23:53 +0000 http://2pwn.tk/websites/www.darkmirage.com/?p=1467#comment-407037 Grey, while I definitely think that the US is a democracy, I don’t see why its people believe think that it is the most democratic. There is no evidence of this.

Third-party candidates stand no chance in the electoral college system, resulting in politics revolving around two-party false dichotomies. How can the system be the most democratic when the people can only choose between two options?

The US also falls consistently behind European nations such as France and Germany in voter turnouts, so apparently American voters aren’t that excited about it either.

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By: Grey http://2pwn.tk/websites/www.darkmirage.com/2010/12/06/wikileaks/comment-page-1/#comment-404706 Mon, 20 Dec 2010 09:08:18 +0000 http://2pwn.tk/websites/www.darkmirage.com/?p=1467#comment-404706 t think the real problem here is about Wikileaks. Though some people disagree with their tactics (myself included), there are times where I must admit that they can do good. The reason that so many Americans are upset about the recent leaked cables is that the cables were truly insignificant. There was nothing really gained from the leak. It appears that the entire event was just a malicious attack against the United States. I find it interesting that so many people are talking about the responses of American politicians. The charged statements against Wikileaks are just political maneuvering. The majority of the American public was outraged at this event, so the politicians issue fiery rhetoric to appease their constituents who control the politicians’ future, because we are a democracy. Also, the release of those cable shows a flaw in American security and the people want to know that their government is doing something and rhetoric helps alleviate those fears. I am really curious that people do not consider the United States a democracy. This is probably the American in me speaking, but I would say we are the most democratic country in the world if you consider a representative democracy democratic. We follow the system to a fault. The ineffectiveness of the American government is because our politicians represent our people. People from West Virginia are different than people from California, so they would send different people to Congress. There is no surprise when these two Congressmen disagree, but this is how the United States has ran for the last two centuries. The Federal Government has always been slow, but now these inefficiencies are highlighted by a 24 hour news media. This is a factless opinion on my part, but I don’t think any other country has to deal with so many different backgrounds and try to mesh them together to form a functioning government. If there is another country like that, I doubt they are committed to making sure everyone has the same rights and that the minorities are protected. It wasn’t easy uniting so many different people; the Civil War clearly shows that. What is most surprising is that somehow this was able to work. I believe that the animosity against the United States comes from the fact that we’re currently the strongest country in the world and we like to push our ideas on people, even though they rarely take. I see that many people here represent multiple countries, and my quest to you is who do you want to see as the world superpower? I think the United States has done a good job; I’m sure most of us would agree that Nazi Germany was bad and so was communism. The one country we have screwed over the most is ourselves. We’ve paid for our mistakes in Vietnam. Even though I support our current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, we’ve paid for that too. I know other countries have joined in but we pull most of the weight. I don’t know why so many people from other countries are angry at the United States when we have to bury our soldiers and have increased our debt to a ridiculous number.]]> I don’t think the real problem here is about Wikileaks. Though some people disagree with their tactics (myself included), there are times where I must admit that they can do good. The reason that so many Americans are upset about the recent leaked cables is that the cables were truly insignificant. There was nothing really gained from the leak. It appears that the entire event was just a malicious attack against the United States.

I find it interesting that so many people are talking about the responses of American politicians. The charged statements against Wikileaks are just political maneuvering. The majority of the American public was outraged at this event, so the politicians issue fiery rhetoric to appease their constituents who control the politicians’ future, because we are a democracy. Also, the release of those cable shows a flaw in American security and the people want to know that their government is doing something and rhetoric helps alleviate those fears.

I am really curious that people do not consider the United States a democracy. This is probably the American in me speaking, but I would say we are the most democratic country in the world if you consider a representative democracy democratic. We follow the system to a fault. The ineffectiveness of the American government is because our politicians represent our people. People from West Virginia are different than people from California, so they would send different people to Congress. There is no surprise when these two Congressmen disagree, but this is how the United States has ran for the last two centuries. The Federal Government has always been slow, but now these inefficiencies are highlighted by a 24 hour news media.

This is a factless opinion on my part, but I don’t think any other country has to deal with so many different backgrounds and try to mesh them together to form a functioning government. If there is another country like that, I doubt they are committed to making sure everyone has the same rights and that the minorities are protected. It wasn’t easy uniting so many different people; the Civil War clearly shows that. What is most surprising is that somehow this was able to work. I believe that the animosity against the United States comes from the fact that we’re currently the strongest country in the world and we like to push our ideas on people, even though they rarely take. I see that many people here represent multiple countries, and my quest to you is who do you want to see as the world superpower? I think the United States has done a good job; I’m sure most of us would agree that Nazi Germany was bad and so was communism. The one country we have screwed over the most is ourselves. We’ve paid for our mistakes in Vietnam. Even though I support our current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, we’ve paid for that too. I know other countries have joined in but we pull most of the weight. I don’t know why so many people from other countries are angry at the United States when we have to bury our soldiers and have increased our debt to a ridiculous number.

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By: DarkMirage http://2pwn.tk/websites/www.darkmirage.com/2010/12/06/wikileaks/comment-page-1/#comment-402583 Wed, 15 Dec 2010 13:01:53 +0000 http://2pwn.tk/websites/www.darkmirage.com/?p=1467#comment-402583 I think you misunderstand the term anarchist. I did not say that anarchy is necessarily a bad or wrong thing in this case, but I am merely pointing out the facts. If your idea of democracy is a government where every citizen knows about everything, then unfortunately there will never be such a totalitarian democracy and you fight an eternal battle.

I also find it interesting that you can criticize democracies for failing to live up to your naive standards of perfection, while in the same breath praise China for negligible improvements. I was born in mainland China and my entire extended family lives there. I can tell you that you are an idiot for believing in fairy tales simply because they happen to fit with your ideology.

We are talking about a country that shuts down a phone line within minutes after you send out a SMS containing censored information such as a person’s name. If you support WikiLeaks’ purported goals even the tiniest bit, you will see that I am not the sinophobe here (I don’t hate myself), but rather you simply have an unjustifiable bias against Western democracies. You are praising China because a tiny group of retired politicians and intellectuals published a letter calling for political reforms.

See, in China they can simply block out all foreign media and mentions of WikiLeaks online. This is a much more efficient way of solving the problems and I do not see them changing their methods any time soon. The US executive government in the meantime has to actually struggle to find a ridiculous law and bring Assange to court where he will promptly be found innocent by any decent judge.

WikiLeaks wants to fight government conspiracies by making it costly and difficult to keep secrets. I will agree that the spectre of such a leak serves as an interesting international political force that can perhaps influence policy-making for the better.

But I feel obligated to point out that Assange’s base assumption – that authoritarian government are non-linearly damaged by leaks compared to open ones – is technically true but practically meaningless because he fails to take into account of the fact that open governments are also non-linearly more vulnerable to leaks. Hence, leaks may harm authoritarian governments more if they happen but make open governments want to be more authoritarian so that they don’t happen.

Incidentally I do not live in the US and I am not a citizen of that country, so I don’t understand your point about ethnocentrism. Maybe you are projecting your assumptions.

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By: Anonymous http://2pwn.tk/websites/www.darkmirage.com/2010/12/06/wikileaks/comment-page-1/#comment-402456 Wed, 15 Dec 2010 06:21:06 +0000 http://2pwn.tk/websites/www.darkmirage.com/?p=1467#comment-402456 Well, obviously you fail to comprehend what Wikileaks is all about. The diplomatic cables are only a small fraction of what they released. I recommend to read this article: http://zunguzungu.wordpress.com/2010/11/29/julian-assange-and-the-computer-conspiracy-%E2%80%9Cto-destroy-this-invisible-government%E2%80%9D/ so you might get a better understanding of what Julian Assange and his colleagues are trying to do. Anarchy has nothing to do with it.

Your intellectual ability must be ridiculously limited if you seriously believe that the diplomatic cables are just “gossip” and the current political system of the USA and most other western nations “democratic”. You also reveal the logical fallacy of your reasoning by comparing the reaction of the American government to that of China, Iran et cetera. China is not (yet) a democratic country, but the USA call themselves a democracy. Democracies must be held to higher standards, and especially their very own standards i.e. the constitution.

Ironically China is indeed making progress to a more open society as you can read here: http://cmp.hku.hk/2010/10/13/8035/ So this makes your sinophobia look as what it is: biased, ignorant and uneducated. I realize you might tell me about the oppression of “peaceful monks” and the “exploitation of workers and peasants”. Well, I don’t care, because my world view is not shaped by corporate media and these issues are a lot more complicated than you probably imagine. Anyone who wants a more somber picture of China should read this: http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2008/03/26/why-they-hate-china/

Anyway, in the end Wikileaks is not an American but an international organization, so it’s not their responsibility (neither morally nor legally) to take care of the security of American secrets or institutions. Americans who scream “traitor”, “information terrorist” and the like only display their ethnocentric perception of reality.

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By: Jon Luc Picard http://2pwn.tk/websites/www.darkmirage.com/2010/12/06/wikileaks/comment-page-1/#comment-400489 Sun, 12 Dec 2010 00:28:22 +0000 http://2pwn.tk/websites/www.darkmirage.com/?p=1467#comment-400489 t been much bad doing reported in the leaks. It’s not like the FDA was promoting a useless cancer drug (instead of a useful one). A leak like civilian deaths caused by air strikes is a significant report, but not surprising. Civilians are always killed during conflicts. News of civilian death is important, so this is why I support Wiki Leaks. I also agree with you that the Leaks are too hyped by the media and the US.]]> I like the reference to the Laughing Man. Wiki Leaks is trying to reveal the “secret” cons of the US, but there wasn’t been much bad doing reported in the leaks. It’s not like the FDA was promoting a useless cancer drug (instead of a useful one). A leak like civilian deaths caused by air strikes is a significant report, but not surprising. Civilians are always killed during conflicts. News of civilian death is important, so this is why I support Wiki Leaks. I also agree with you that the Leaks are too hyped by the media and the US.

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By: Epi http://2pwn.tk/websites/www.darkmirage.com/2010/12/06/wikileaks/comment-page-1/#comment-399071 Thu, 09 Dec 2010 20:09:35 +0000 http://2pwn.tk/websites/www.darkmirage.com/?p=1467#comment-399071 Well looks like the Europeans aren’t amused by all of this either. They pretty much sync up with your points about the hypocrisy of it all.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/10/world/europe/10wikileaks-react.html?ref=global-home

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By: Danno http://2pwn.tk/websites/www.darkmirage.com/2010/12/06/wikileaks/comment-page-1/#comment-398968 Thu, 09 Dec 2010 15:33:06 +0000 http://2pwn.tk/websites/www.darkmirage.com/?p=1467#comment-398968 Hahaha, Tome is trolling. Cute.

Nice response, there, Poro.

I think the “USian” was to make it look more like “Russian?”

Yet again, I find my sensibilities completely in line with Darkmirage. If I ever become a zombie, I’m heading straight for Singapore for some o dem delicious brains.

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By: Poro http://2pwn.tk/websites/www.darkmirage.com/2010/12/06/wikileaks/comment-page-1/#comment-397855 Wed, 08 Dec 2010 05:30:12 +0000 http://2pwn.tk/websites/www.darkmirage.com/?p=1467#comment-397855 @tome
Hm… as an American I am offended. 1. I don’t think you can be elected presidents without being someone first. Second, there is an electoral college in our voting system for a reason.
Oh and on:
“1. USia is not a democracy. Or even a civilized nation, for that matter.”
1. It’s USA not USia….
2. As the great master yoda would say, democracy we are.
3. I think having the best modern military means something. I mean we beat North Korea who spends 40% of its income on military about 5000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times over.
4. Yo! Europe would be one big fat Germany if it wasn’t for us. :D

I don’t know if ur just an angsty teenager, but US is still in good shape. ….
Ah the Russian Federation….
ROFLOLMAO

Russians. Sorry, man for hating on you. I understand your vehement nature against the US. Must be pissed when every single shooting game on a game console potrays your nation as the bad guys: Call of Duty, Battlefield: Bad Company, and VanQuish. XD

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